WYoshiX2 (2014-03-25 19:30:47)

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To sum it up:

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Bean (2014-03-25 19:39:25)

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I always use Mega Lucario just to annoy Smogoneers.

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-25 19:50:14)

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There is no 'Freeze' Clause, btw, since unlike every other status effect, you only have a 10-30% of infliction, vs Sleep, which does the same and has 100% infliction moves.

The reason certain clauses, such as the Evasion Clause, exist, is because Evasion removes all skill from the game, and now makes the battle a test of luck (Landing the attack or losing because you missed every time) rather than a test of skill. (Outplaying the opponent)

Lastly, there's a reason Genesect, Speed Boost Blaziken, and the Box legendaries are considered 'Uber' tier. It's because they're intentionally or unintentionally overpowered in a normal setting. Name 1 non-legendary 'Mon that can counter Genesect. You'll have a hell of a time figuring that one out because Genesect has the coveted Bug/Steel typing, perfect coverage in his movepool, and can function as a mixed, special, or physical attacker. Do the same with Speed Boost Blaziken. How about the massive wall that is Lugia? Arceus? Mewtwo? Deoxys?

You're right, in that Smogonites shouldn't try forcing these rules over Wi-Fi with strangers, but most of these clauses exist in the standard VGC format anyway. But let's be real here, there's no skill in spamming double team or minimize, and there's no skill in using Legendaries like Mewtwo and Xerneas.

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Bean (2014-03-25 20:03:54)

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^ Actually, there is skill in using them.


Basically, Smogon takes away all the fun, and their community tries to force it. And how they act to YouTuber Versifly is just dumb. -.-

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Bean (2014-03-25 20:44:53)

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An Eevee evolution banned. Eeyup.

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Bean (2014-03-26 07:44:50)

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@Giygas No it isn't. You need to use it well. Mega Charizard Y would be in ubers without the 4x. But really, should Rock be weak to Flying? Also, Charizard X is physical, and Charizard has a decent physical movepool.


@GamesAddict Blaziken is banned already.

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-27 12:14:46)

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1) Rotom-H is not a reliable counter. No Fire type is. Also, while a Water Type Techo Blast is pretty weak, it learns Hydro Pump. Also, there's this thing known as "U-Turn" that prevents you from outplaying it that easily. Rotom-H also doesn't outspeed Genesect, even with a choice scarf. Unless the Genesect user doesn't understand battle momentum, He'll always have the upper hand.

2) Wobbuffet was banned in Generations 3 and 4, because of how broken it was with Shadow Tag. It forced you to hit him, because there was no way to out-stall him, and if you did, he'd return it back with twice the force. In Generation 5, it was brought down to UU/BL Tier, because three things happened.

Shadow Tag was changed, Volt Switch was added to the game, and it got more counters in the form of Physical Attacking Ghosts, and Special Attacking Darks, which only existed in Ubers Tier in the form of Giratina and Darkrai up until that point.

As for the Espeon and Umbreon bans, is it new?

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DarkHarvest (2014-03-27 16:56:09)

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Didn't they ban Kangaskanite and Gengarite? I still use MegaGengar. Smogons rules don't really bother me all too much.

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-27 20:25:15)

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You don't understand the concept of Momentum in battle, if you think U-turn is useless.

Rotom-H takes no little damage, sure, but that fire blast he prepped for Genesect is now resisted by the new Pokemon that comes in, and Rotom-H is now the one in a bad spot, becase one of three things can happen.

1) Rotom-H stays in, and gets KO'd.

2) Rotom-H switches, giving the opponent the opportunity to set up Entry Hazards or Stat-up moves.

3) Rotom-H switches out, the switch in predicted by anyone with a brain, meaning they get to damage the Pokemon as they enter the field.

Depending on what the Rotom-H user does, it all leads to giving the opponent the upper hand. The only way for the Rotom-H user to get away is to Volt Switch after the Genesect uses U-turn, assuming the Switch-in isn't immune to Electric, but then that defeats the purpose of bringing in Rotom-H, so it's still a loss.

2nd Hydro Pump has 70% accuracy. That's good enough, and much better than, say, Zap Cannon with 50% or The OHKO moves which have 30% accuracy as a base.

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-27 23:08:12)

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This whole debate is still predicated on the fact that the Genesect is even running a Special set. He could be running Physical LO , Physical Scarf, Physical CB, Mixed Scarf, Mixed Specs, Mixed LO, Special Scarf, Special Specs, Special LO, and his movepool is even wider than his set options.

He is, in fact, not predictable. Bad players with a Genesect are predictable, competent players with one aren't, and Professional players with a Genesect are untouchable.

Assuming this was a special set, he could be running anything, not necessarily Hydro Pump. And just because an inexperienced player would risk momentum by Hydro Pumping when there's a potential switch in, doesn't mean every player would do so.

Saying Genesect is predictable is like saying Smeargle is predictable. The only difference between the two is that Genesect hits very hard, is much faster, has better defenses, has a better typing, and isn't forced into a single item choice to survive.

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-28 02:48:09)

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You used the term OCD incorrectly, The original topic is basically you saying "I don't like Smogon", which isn't really a topic that allows discussion unless dissenting opinions are given equal weight, and you started this whole debate by saying Rotom-H is actually a decent counter to Genesect when it clearly isn't.

2nd, while you try scouting him, he's already done the same to you just by switching in. If switching into a Specially Bulky Rotom-H, He knows nearly your entire set, meanwhile, while Protect will let you know he has U-Turn, you won't learn the item (LO recoil doesn't happen, and If he's choice locked, you don't know which Choice item it is.), which in turn, won't let you know his intention. The only thing you can deduce, however, is that he's not an All-out Attacker set with 4 main damafing moves, which could still mean he's runming anything. But again, can you really tell a Genesect's entire moveset based solely on the fact that he has U-turn? Like I said, his movepool is incredibly diverse.

Lastly, EV Spreads and Hold Items are a set, The moveset is separate and can be incredibly diverse (See, Terrakion, for another example, only less extreme)

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-28 18:40:01)

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90% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The reality of the situation is that only a small percentage of people who play Pokemon do so on a competitive level, and the ones that do either

A ) Use the Smogon Rules
or
B ) Use the VGC rules.

There's so few differences between the two that it looks one and the same.

Also Mega Lucario, while powerful, is kind of a waste of a Mega Slot considering that it loses items that made Base Lucario good, like Life Orb, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs. You're better off using a regular Lucario then using your Mega Slot on something like Mawhile, Manectric, or Houndoom.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2014-03-28 18:40:51

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-29 00:52:59)

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Compare to say, Mega Mawile with Huge Power, which basically does the same for it as it does for Azurill and Diggersby (Btw, Azurill has a higher Attack stat than Positive natured Groudon, even while running Jolly, which in itself is a monstrous feat.)

Sucker Punch at +2 OHKO's everything. Even things that resist it. Since Lucario has Quad resist, you'd think he'd survive, even Mega, Then you realize at +2, Mega Mawhile has an Attack stat of 720+

Congratulations. Not even factoring STAB, you now have the highest attack stat in the game.

Factoring in STAB, I'll be damned in anything can survive a Play Rough or Iron Head from the same Mawile.

Edit: Scratch that, Steel doesn't resist Dark Anymore, so that's even less fun for Lucario.

edit #2: Removed the part about losing to Deoxys and Kyurem, because it was proven untrue through the calcs.

This post has been edited one or more times, the last time was:
2014-03-29 19:30:00

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-29 20:42:58)

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Because unlike Lucario, Mawile doesn't have 4 Moveslot Syndrome. Mawile's 4 slots are more or less consistent considering she has a very small movepool. Compare to Lucario, who has the answer to everything they throw at him, but because of that, can't fit it all into 4 moveslots.

2nd, Stat totals. Lucario's is now in the 600+ club when he goes Mega, while Mawile still has 480.

Also Speed. Mawile has a very, very low base speed. She would be a bicycle racing a Formula One car vs many other attackers. You'd have an easier time listing things that DON'T outspeed her.

Lastly. because of what is considered Meta. No one uses Mawile or Abomasnow or Houndoom anyway, because it's all about that Mega Kangashkhan, Mega Gengar, and Mega Lucario right now. They overshadow every other Mega so badly it's ridiculous.

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HanShotFirst (2014-03-29 20:45:31)

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If you don't understand how the last bit works, consider this.

Why use Pokemon A, if Pokemon B does the same job but with less weaknesses?

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